The “Water Cooler” is a feature on Claycord.com where we ask you a question or provide a topic, and you talk about it.
The “Water Cooler” will be up Monday-Friday at noon.
Today’s question:
QUESTION: When it comes to mass shootings in America, do you blame guns or mental health?
Talk about it….
Mental health and social media
Excluding Claycord of course!!
Right, because no other socially or economically advanced country has any citizens with mental health problems or who use social media.
Well… everyplace in the world has mental health issues. No place in the world has more guns per capita and consequently… more mass shootings. Facts! We have too many guns on our streets.
And guns on the ( Street ) or usually stolen by criminals that careless about laws controlling them. Bring back maximum sentencing for firearm crimes. No pleas and no reduced sentences.
So if we took a few million guns from people do you think we would get the right ones.
Ver-ri-tas: If we isolated (or fixed) Chicago, Memphis, Birmingham, Oakland, Little Rock, Springfield, Atlanta alone; our murder rate would be greatly reduced.
Fact! A lot of those guns are illegally held by felons! Taking my legal guns away leaves me bare. This is a mental health issue coupled with family members coming to grips with the “fact” that their loved one may be dangerous and then alerting the proper authorities. Then it’s up to the authorities to act and I say that loosely considering how many of these guys were reported by family members prior to their violent acts and the authorities did nothing. So why should my legal gone be taken away?
Sick of it – That’s exactly what Obama proposed after Sandy Hook; harsher penalties & crackdowns for people with gun crime convictions.
Obama’s recommendations to Congress which were ALL opposed by Republicans:
1) Requiring universal background checks
2) Increasing penalties for “Straw purchasers”.
3) $4 billion in funds for more police
4) Finance training programs for police/schools to respond to attacks
5) Provide financing for mental health programs for young people
6) Reinstate Assault weapons ban
7) Ban armor piercing bullets
Republicans opposed every single item.
RJ
Tonight on the news they had a thing on two different multiple murders by stabbing that just happened. One of them the killer was a gang member that had been convicted of gun charges. It’s silly that he was even on the street. But yet he killed either 2 or 4 people. Can’t remember what set of murders was his. The media has blown up this whole thing on assault rifles to where people don’t really understand much about guns anymore. There is no such thing as a assault rifle when it comes to public ownership. The media’s famed AR15 ( that is to light of a caliber for most hunting in CA) has a brother so to speak in rifles that is same caliber same gas operation but has never been brought up because it has a full wood stock and “doesn’t” look as menacing. The media’s hype for the AR15 has spurned a huge market over the years driving its desirable ownership by those who want the Tactical image. It’s disgusting. I don’t blame the rifle, its the owners and media that glorify it and everyone buys into it
RJ but nothing is said about Obummers failed fast and furious program that places many guns in criminals hands…
Not guns, and mental health is only a secondary reason. The primary cause is the breakdown of the traditional nuclear family with a mother and father in the home and the cheapening of the value of life. The two seminal events that precipitated this were the “Great Society” creation of the massive welfare state that resulted in skyrocketing rates of out of wedlock births and single family households (mostly headed by women) and the Roe vs Wade decision that devalued life.
Agreed.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/missing-fathers-and-americas-broken-boys-the-vast-majority-of-mass-shooters-come-from-broken-homes
This
Agree 100%
Disagree. Assault rifles play a part, along with mental health and the breakdown of community. Love comes from family (ALL types) and a supportive community. Citizens can reach out and improve their community, be kind, volunteer, give back. Government can ban assault weapons nationwide and enable Red Flag laws to identify people who should not be able to keep or get guns.
^^^This^^^
Amen 😭 now this is 100000000000% FACTS. If only parents could spend more time with their kids while still be able to afford a home and still have a nice life instead of always having to be gone because they work 2/3 jobs …
Resident, what is an assault rifle? Last time I checked it was any of various intermediate-range, magazine-fed military rifles (such as the AK-47) that can be set for automatic or semiautomatic fire. I wish my AK-47 could go full auto, but that is illegal. We have semi auto guns that look like the military guns but in reality my 30-06 can do more damage than my AK-47; however, to the liberal media the AK-47 looks more scary so itrs bad.
About the nuclear family, as in mom dad raising their biological children:
I have observed over the years, families that do not have this magical mix. Living with mom and dad gives the child a sense of balance, an observation point to learn from. Up closer, I have observed boys, with no manly influence, no mentoring. No Tribe.
They may be able to earn a degree or doctorate, they may earn a lot of money and spawn beautiful children…but they will never have manly grace or a Tribe. A family of generational wisdom.
ClayDen you nailed it. Fixed it at the family level!! Parents need to be parents and teach their kids right from wrong. It will take a couple of generations to filter out the gunk but slowly attitudes and social behaviors will heal.
Resident you’re a great example of why people who don’t know what they’re talking about shouldn’t be effecting policy.
What is there something like three hundred and fifty million guns in the country and how many mass shootings? There are fewer people than guns.There you go, there is the answer.
Mental health. 100%
I blame untreated or undiagnosed mental illness and guns. You have to get to the root of the problem, and mental illness and guns are the root. Blaming the media is ridiculous. It’s a scapegoat, and mental illness is still mental illness and guns always have and always will kill. You can’t force people to treat their mental illness or take their meds, nor can we seems to keep guns out of the wrong hands. That’s why we have a serious problem in America.
And if these guys aren’t mentally ill (just evil) then it’s guns in the wrong hands.
If it is untreated and undiagnosied how do you get to the problem? It’s no different than drunk driving (which kills more people than firearms). Using the gun control analogy the cure for drunk driving would be to remove cars from sober people. Gun control only affects law abiding people it has no affect on people who plan of breaking the law. If laws were the answer than why doesn’t the law agains murder stop the killings.
It’s the SSRI ant-depressants (Zoloft, Paxil, etc.) that all the school shooters have been on, or were just withdrawing from, dating all the way back to Columbine (Eric Harris was on Luvox and was rejected by the USMC because of it). There have always been messed-up kids and there have always been guns, but there were almost no mass shootings before these medications were introduced. My doctor said he refuses to prescribe SSRIs because of the suicidal and homicidal thoughts they produce. They can’t be banned, because then the pharmaceutical companies wouldn’t make as much money.
Yes! Drugs, including prescriptions. Combined with decades or poor nutrition. I also blame a parentless childhood. Not having at least one parent at home and available is damaging to young children. Even older children an teens benefit from having a parents guidance and attention.
I blame bad parenting, ,drug use, the overuse of internet/ social media, school bullying, and guns being easily accessed by any Tom, dick or Mary.
Mental illness is the outcome of all of the above.
the fact is that these mass killings represent only 1% of the homicides committed in the US. Even if you combine the killings in Gilroy, El Paso, and Dayton you would only get an average month of killings/injuries in Chicago. Focusing on an inanimate object will ensure that we never get to a solution. Those intent on doing evil will do so, on March 24, 1990 a man killed 87 and injured over 200 people at a night club in the Bronx using a gallon of gasoline and two matches. Look at the increases in knifings in London. If you research mass killings by stabbings you get a list 56 pages long. Of the top 20 mass shootings in the world only 5 were in the US and none of those were in the worst 5.
I blame both! One has to be out of their mind to commit such an act, but having access these types of weapons is insane.
Multiple causations.
Fatherlessness and the loss of faith in God as evidenced by the decline in church attendance are the biggest contributors.
Violent video games, easy accessibility of guns by those with mental illness and early release of violent felons are also significant factors.
@ Always Right
According to the Pew Research Center here are some data regarding
% who say the attend worship services at least weekly
China 1%
Russia 7%
Norway 7%
UK 8%
Germany 10%
Australia 17%
Canada 20%
Israel 30%
US 36%
Mexico 45%
Pakistan 59%
Egypt 62%
Ethiopia 82%
Uganda 82%
Nigeria 89%
You guess you now know what places to avoid if you want to stay away from gun violence …….
https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/how-religious-commitment-varies-by-country-among-people-of-all-ages/pf-06-13-18_religiouscommitment-03-08/
Yikes, wrong on so many levels
BOTH. But really, why do citizens need military style guns and amo? Even for recreation, why does someone need a rapid fire gun? why can’t these be limited to shoot ranges if someone wants to use it for “entertainment”. You don’t need these types of weapons for protection of your person or property.
How about for “the security of a free state”?
The only military style guns generally available to the public are handguns.
Fred, please stop educating the hand-wringers. Now they’ll want our ranch guns too.
The dirty little secret is no one needs them Concord Mom. This was never about need. It’s about want. Claiming otherwise is a bunch of hooey and applesauce.
I once offered to auction off my Mini 14 to the highest bidding gun grabber. I’d have a FFl dealer do the transfer all legal & proper and then the crazies could weld the action open , heat up the barrel & bend it backwards…. use it for a prop at their rallies…. not one single bid!
(Truth is I like the Mini 30 better!)
You know what the most fun is tho? Winchester Lever Action 94 Trapper 16″ barrel in .357 ….or the single shot Savage Model 30 in .22 lr popping pine cones off a log.
I know…. Gun Nut!
Mental health.
And before anyone starts blaming Reagan for closing all of the mental health facilities in CA I have to ask,
why haven’t they been reinstated to help those people?
Since Regan did such a horrible thing, why haven’t the voters told their representatives to fix the problem?
People told me that Obamacare would fix the problem. Well, it didn’t.
There’s no one to blame here but the voters.
For the four millionth time. When Reagan was our governor mental institutions were closed all over the country because of a federal suit brought by the ACLU.
Reagan did no such thing. The mental health facilities were closeed because the mental health industry wanted to “mainstream” the menatally ill and the ACLU forced the closure. The Reagan myth simply shows how easily the left can brainwash the uninformed.
Ricardoh, that’s news to me. Deinstitutionalization in California began in the late 1950s and accelerated in 1967 when Reagan became governor and the state passed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act. There were lots of factors that resulted in the closure of so many mental health facilities, and while I personally do not attribute all of the reasons to Reagan, either as governor or president, he did play a significant role. What lawsuit are you talking about?
… yes it is just a myth that Reagan using the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) repealed President Carter’s Mental Health Systems Act which was supposed to continue federal funding for mental health programs…..
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So you say tthis website here has it all wrong?
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/96/s1177
The Mental Health Systems Act which was supposed to continue federal funding for mental health programs and was signed on October 7, 1980 was actually signed by President Reagan using a time machine to travel back for signing and then it was repealed by President Carter on August 13, 1981. Sneaky this Carter guy, they probably forgot to disable his key card so he could sneak in in August 1981 and sign the repeal…..
Even assuming the posters are correct about the Carter law, whatever impact the law had, it clearly had no impact on Reagan’s actions as governor in the 1960s and early 1970s. The movement to close mental health institutions began long before Carter became president. The Carter legislation was intended to reform the mental health system in the light of those closures. It never got off the ground and was largely repealed soon after Reagan became president.
I still haven’t seen anything about an ACLU lawsuit that caused nationwide closures.
Parenting, the lack thereof.
People can be hateful, angry, and impulsive and not have a mental illness. That’s a gross oversimplification and we need to stop using mental illness as the only thing to blame. It might be a contributing factor in SOME cases, but mass shootings often come down to hate crimes and domestic terrorism and need to be treated as such.
The 21 year old El Paso, Texas shooter wrote and published a white nationalist manifesto 30 minutes prior to the shooting. And why else would he need an assault rifle?
The 24 year old Dayton, Ohio shooter was strategic enough to wear a bulletproof vest and hearing protection when he fired his assault rifle. Authorities recently found a target list belonging to the shooter. Also not sure why else he needed that particular gun…
And the 19 year old Gilroy, California shooter avoided security at the Garlic Festival by cutting through a wire fence with his semi-automatic rifle. Motive still not clear last time I checked.
These boys were/are young. They did/do need help and there were likely some sort of red flags prior to the shootings, but I blame them and society (state gun laws, access to guns, regional prejudices toward XYZ minorities, etc) over mental illness. A person’s upbringing should hold as much if not more weight than mental illness (history or violence, abuse, neglect…).
So I guess I don’t blame guns or mental health. I blame people. People who make guns accessible to those who intend to use them for the wrong reason, people who pull the trigger, people who promote violence and hate which can lead to violent and hateful actions. I blame people.
Here’s a helpful read if you’re open to it: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/why-mental-illness-cant-predict-mass-shootings
How does one cut through a fence with his semi-automatic rifle? 🙂
I had a feeling someone would catch that =P
with his semi-automatic rifle in tow**
What you say sounds good but no sane person shoots dead twenty people. If you do that your brain is fried.
The El Paso shooter did not post a “White Nationalist” manifesto. He posted a manifesto that pretty much echoed what the demcorats were saying about illegal immigration before Trump became President. He even stated his attitudes were formed before Trump was President. hH then went on to lambaste capitalism, supported government controlled healthcare…his manifesto read more like an Obama campaign pamphlett before Obama decided illegal immigration was OK. Read the actual document. witnesses have also reported there were four shooters wearing black clothing and ski masks. the picture of the alleged shooter shows him wearing hearing protection, who worries about hearing on an alleged suicide mission.
Who cares? When people can become a victim of more than one mass shooting in one lifetime in supposedly the most advanced nation on earth, all the arguing in the world won’t solve it. Action will.
Both!
Guns don’t wake up in the morning and say .I am going to go shoot innocent people today . Mentally unstable people do. I believe 100% guns don’t kill people.People kill people..
Mental health. Guns have been around for a long long time and these mass shootings are something that has only been happening for about 25 or so years. Also the attitude of me first always doesn’t help when those people don’t get there way or are able to handle the fact they will not get what they want. It takes someone with a serious lack of empathy for others to pull the trigger and kill some one. Blaming the gun is a excuse to not recognize the true reason for this happening
I blame mental health and easy access to assault style rifles. Other countries have people that have mental health problems but they don’t have easy access on those assault style rifles.
Some people will start mentioning knives. I would want to ban knives too if it can shoot multiple rounds and kill multiple people in a second.
Here are the common excuse for comparison and their main purpose:
Guns – only purpose is to kill.
Knives – are for slicing, dicing, cutting,etc…etc… It’s can use for killing too but one at a time.
Cars- for traveling
Planes – for traveling
I blame Quinton Tarantino.
I blame evil people for evil deeds.
Please don’t stigmatize the mentally ill.
Mental health is not the issue. There was a study which was featured on news radio KCBS AM 740, and only 25% of mass shooters were mentally ill. But of those 25%, there were often other exacerbating factors besides mental illness, such as substance abuse, a recent divorce, job problems, etc., which were not related to mental illness and which caused or contributed to the shooting.
Mentally ill people are not violent. Depression, which is one of the more common mental illnesses, causes low energy, which precludes mass shootings. Schizophrenia causes disorganized thinking, which also precludes mass shooting. The mass shooters were high organized and planed out their assaults well. Hatred is the cause of mass ahootings.
The only way this will stop is if we repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all guns, offering a but back program and criminalizing possession. This also applies to hunters and collectors.
Ok, let me understand this line of thinking.
It is perfectly normal for a person to suddenly go on a homicidal rampage and kill multiple people? People who do this are normal and completely rational. Noting to see here.
Stressors DO NOT exacerbate underlying mental health problems in individuals. Nothing to see here.
People with mental health problems are totally docile, rational and are no danger to themselves, or others or gravely disabled. (The state of California should immediately repeal 5150 H&S.) Nothing to see here.
If we only confiscated all firearms the problem would be solved because surely there is no other way for someone to kill someone but by firearms?!?
So the UK’s knifing epidemic is what hyperbole? The Japanese NBC attacks in 1985 is fake news? Driving a truck into a crowd of people in France is just fiction? The Boston Marathon bombing is made up? No asshat can construct an IED in America.
OK, lets not only repeal the 2nd Amendment but amend the 4th Amendment so it allows general warrants to be issued like jolly ole England otherwise let’s start writing those 393 million search warrants for the KNOWN firearms. I will ignore the fact that the Government only required firearms to be serialized in 1968 and NO ONE knows exactly how may firearm are actually in the US.
Yet, the problem is an inanimate object. It’s not a people problem.
“The only way this will stop is if we repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all guns, offering a but back program and criminalizing possession. This also applies to hunters and collectors.”
Well, there you go. Sounds easy. You should get started.
US Homicide by Firearm Usage ~40,000 annually. (FBI)
US Self Defense Instances via Firearm Usage (Low Estimate) ~100,000 annually (Washington Post)
US Self Defense Instances via Firearm Usage (High Estimate) ~2.2M–2.5M (NPR)
Conclusion: Firearms saved more lives than taken.
100% agree with ClayDen.It all starts in the home.
Mental Health.
guns of course
they walk around hiding and hangin with plastic straws and manhole covers …drinking coffee and talking to Russians …ooohhhh spoooky
reality people will use what ever if they want to harm ….if explosives were all the time then everyone would be crying for explosives to be banned
people use knives and slingshots and even blunt objects to commit crimes
accept the media is not allowed to thrust those into the theatre of media
the dem controlled media is only allowed to post guns since the dems are all out against the NRA …not guns …the NRA why because they refuse to pay to play with the likes of Hillary and Pelosi.
fact is the media glamorizes these shootings ….talking to the friends and family and then the media offers money for stories and stages scenes of unrest against gun violence ..again knives kill just as fast like explosives and blunt weapons ….but the media hides those or does a one shot and done
but a gun used oh they must be trump supporters or radicals or racist or what ever ….never before has a circus of stories been exploited since the media bowed to the democrat theory of our way and you get paid
the media by glamorizing these stories makes it hard to avoid people who need help in coping with this huge thing called life feel cornered and afraid or just pissed off for what ever reason …but the politicians don’t want to get into that they turn and look the other way or …shout mental or oppressed by racism …or anything that is catchy and can be used as propaganda
as much money that is given to media and or politicians to keep up this tirade of guns are like plastic straws and should be sent away …they could easily sit down with psychologists and social workers and hmm dare I say it make a program designed to thwart these things by parents keeping an eye on their kids and actions and social media …or if needed being able to ask for help before their child decides to take a gun to school …
kids take stuff to school all the time knives and num-chuks and guns and rockets and such ….but to use them is another story
feeling threatened in these schools now is a everyday thing …thrust in with bussed in kids who have no ties to the school or area bully those trying to learn or illegals who as well have nothing to lose so join gangs and bully the kids who are there to learn ….so that kid brings a weapon incase they have to defend themselves ….but they are not likely to use it …
after repeated assaults or threats or beatings or what ever ..they snap ..just like adults ….yet instead of it being a sad event and asking the question why and how can we help these kids ….
it becomes the media event and the fuel for anti this and that and woe is me and the dems roll in with the media and start the chant of guns are bleaching the kids minds and making them kill and guns are the enemy and need to be deported …had to say that ….
thing is social media hypes these up so bad they basically beg the kids on the edge to one up the one before …after all we are talking about children …adults just like children breaking down after not being able to handle what is going on …no one to talk to about it or not enough professionals to notice ..or parents without the tools needed to help or recognize …these are the things that should be focused on ….
why do politicians want to do away with the guns …then what we will have a perfect society with all dem control and no plastic straws America will be #1 again ….lol
was the world trade center shot at …no
was the unibomber shooting people no
how about the federal building was it shot up …no
these are huge events by adults ….so by banning guns all together the kids will still be taunted and beat and ridiculed …so where will they turn to next maybe nothing until they are older ….then they blowup a school or a supermarket ….escalation is inevitable …
crying the sky is falling just gets one thing noticed ….opening your eyes you see the whole picture …this narrow vision of political bias …is the problem second to a whole bunch of kids and adults pissed off at something ….MAYBE NOW IS THE TIME TO FIND OUT WHY …
instead of pandering to the will of a political agenda through the demise of freedom and security for us all ….
believing that with guns gone nothing ever will happen again is the brainchild behind ignorance and complaisance
to fix the problem .. you need a new tool …one that fits a wider range instead of beating the political drum of anti freedom will set you free
“the dem controlled media is only allowed to post guns since the dems are all out against the NRA …not guns …the NRA why because they refuse to pay to play with the likes of Hillary and Pelosi.”
You are on to something there. The NRA should have been spreading money around instead of focusing on one party. Not a winning approach if you want to affect policy in a positive way.
“Blame” should not be the question. The question should be, “Which of the two needs to be “fixed”, how, and with what priority”? Perfectly sane people use guns to kill people, as do some mentally ill. Some mentally imbalanced people manage to NOT kill anybody, some do. So if you’re not happy with mass shootings, what are you willing to change? What CAN you change?
The perpetrator, of course!
3rd variable. With technology we lost our people skills. Compassion, empathy and morals. Nobody thinks twice how someone might feel just how they feel. Much comes from hiding behind tech makes people say and do more than they would face to face. Result is more bullying behind scenes with kids at school. Before it would be at school try and avoid. Tech makes it 24/7 puts more pressure on kids too as they get shamed openly with their peers. Can’t escape it. Want own justice or take own life. Also parents not wanting to parent put a device in front of kids let them be entertained. Doesn’t seem like much but impact is seen in the lack of respect for anything. These lead to isolation/depression/anger/vengeance which we didn’t have growing up. Someone bullied you, you just avoided them. Now you can’t. With no respect for anything let alone life, add a gun you have a mess. JMO
If it was guns we’d all be dead. Per capita, the amount of arms we Americans own is beyond comprehension for any liberal minded knee jerk emotional mess of a being. Blaming an object over a person is the problem. Look what has happened since we stopped disciplining kids, gender bending, participation trophies, zero accountability, etc.
If you think banning guns is the answer, you’re clueless.
We struggle to find answers . I think it’s evil. Pure and simple. Call it Satan if you will.
The link below is to an article about studying every mass shooting since 1966. and what was learned about the shooters. They write, “We’ve built a database dating back to 1966 of every mass shooter who shot and killed four or more people in a public place, and every shooting incident at schools, workplaces, and places of worship since 1999. We’ve interviewed incarcerated perpetrators and their families, shooting survivors and first responders. We’ve read media and social media, manifestos, suicide notes, trial transcripts and medical records.”
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-08-04/el-paso-dayton-gilroy-mass-shooters-data
The four commonalities are:
1. The vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age.
2. Practically every mass shooter we studied had reached an identifiable crisis point in the weeks or months leading up to the shooting.
3. Most of the shooters had studied the actions of other shooters and sought validation for their motives.
4. The shooters all had the means to carry out their plans. Once someone decides life is no longer worth living and that murdering others would be a proper revenge, only means and opportunity stand in the way of another mass shooting.
Guns. 100%
It’s an inanimate object that no anima. How in the world can it be to blame?
Did the gun suddenly develop artificial consciousness and decide to point itself at someone and pull the trigger?
No, then it’s the person who loaded it, picked it up, pointed it and pulled the trigger.
Blaming an inanimate object is just saying it’s not their fault.
Derb.
With your thinking, would forks make people fat?
This is a social problem that is encouraged by social media and encouraged by a few big MSM to enhance a certain political party’s ratings. If they were so concerned about this violence, when will they start reporting on the dozens killed every weekend in places like Chicago, LA. NY. etc?
Social problem.
GUNS!!!!
Why can’t it be both. Why does it have to be one or the other. When you put them against each other nothing gets done.
How about the nonstop bashing and demonization of white males by the Left?
Agree and I’m not even Caucasian
Guns. The regulation thereof.
Mental health also a factor.
To ignore either is perilous.
Neither. Just last night a 33 year-old man went on a rampage in Southern California. By the time he was finished, six people were dead from stab wounds. That is one more fatality than the mass shooting in Gilroy with a automatic weapon. It is referred to as mass murder while the weapon of choice may vary.
Studies on mice conducted in the 1960s showed that the stress of overcrowding brought about aggressive behaviors in some individuals, from violent and deadly fighting, to infanticide, to self mutilation. I believe we are seeing mass murder on our planet as a result of over population and overcrowding
Errata: ” … By the time he was finished, four people were dead.” Not six. Sill, however, one more than the mass shooting in Gilroy.
Additionally, since mass murder, whatever the choice of weapon, is committed overwhelmingly by white males within a very specific age range, I wonder what a possible racial tendency to a male hormonal imbalance in that age group might be as a contributing factor, more so than mental illness. I don’t believe, in fact, that mental illness is necessarily a predisposing condition for commission of this crime. Neither is the use of guns.
I am leaning towards the culture of isolation as the biggest culprit. Young adults (or the 18 to 45 group) are suffering displacement. The dont have worth in our society and feel unwanted with no group or family ties.
So, mental health but leaning closer to alienation from society. Everywhere I look I see more sympathy for illegals committing crimes than for our own native sons.
Mental illness
Guns being so easily available make the problem far worse, but I definitely believe that it’s a combination of many societal factors that have impacted the overall stress levels and influenced the development of our youth (eg decrease in living wages and escalating housing costs, racial divide, increased popularity with social media, desensitization of violence through media, more accessible and acceptable Mental Health etc). You can track many of these impacts directly to parental care and involvement. There does seem to be a correlation between kids connectivity and attachment to others – as most shooters seem to be emotionally isolated, significantly angry/detached – which usually corresponds with a hopeless outlook. Parents living check to check often doesn’t allow for follow up – kids left to themselves and lack of patience due to stress about basic living. I’m generalizing but we could all agree most do better when they don’t have to worry about basic needs (healthcare, groceries, housing). Think that is the direction we need to focus on.
I am all for restricting gun laws to make it more difficult, but truly believe that until we reverse some of the above mentioned factors – things will continue to get worse. Wish it was just one reason…
Mental illness. They put the “rights” of the crazies over the right of the citizens to be safe. How many times after something like this happens do we hear the stories of all the people who knew the person wasn’t normal. It is way too late to take away the guns, it’s like the cell phones in the car, if they didn’t enforce things right from the start people feel it’s their right. Can you imagine if they sent law enforcement out to homes to seize guns from non criminals?
The question kind of answers itself, does it not? The question above is the same question everyone wants answers to “What is the cause of mass shootings in America?” Well we can’t have mass shootings without guns. If it were a mass stabbing or some other type of mass murder, then we might have some other culprit. But in order for mass SHOOTINGS to happen and keep happening the same way, guns are at cause.
I believe that the mass shootings root issue is that we now devalue life. When we take God out of the equation then we think it’s ok to abort a child because it isn’t wanted or to kill a child when it’s born for any reason we choose. When you strip God from our lives there is no moral base and killing becomes an option. It doesn’t help that abortions and guns are easy to obtain and that the traditional family structure in America is practically nonexistent! Parents don’t talk to their kids- they are to tired from working so much to afford the house with a pool in that good neighborhood! And yes, mental health access and treatment are poorly administered to ignore it would be foolish. We are in a crisis here in America! There’s not just one reason there are many and it’s a domino affect! We so need to return to honoring God!
Reading some of these comments here validate the Obama 2008 quote:
“So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
This headline from the Business Insider says it all:
“Trump incorrectly blamed mental illness for mass shootings, but blocked a rule that would have made it harder for some people with mental illnesses to buy guns”
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-blames-mental-illness-for-shootings-block-obama-era-restriction-2019-8
Of course it’s guns.
You might want to dig a little deeper into the proposed law and who supported the repeal. Wouldn’t want to sweat the details, would we?
Ok.
The easy access to military style guns makes it easy for any unstable person to give in to a bad impulse.
The NRA always overlooks the phrase “well regulated militia” in the second amendment. In Federalist No. 29 of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton explained at great length precisely what a “well-regulated militia” was,…It basically meant what today we call the National Guard.
Lol. I haven’t seen one comment in this thread that gets it, some are partially right that it’s not a gun problem. I won’t say the actual reason because I’d rather not be attacked by crazy commies.
Our society has tons of friction. Ask yourself, where did the friction come from?
That friction has to be released, how is it going to be released?
Think about those 2 questions. Don’t believe your first thought, and sleep on it. Be interesting to see if anyone understands the truth.
Blame Mental Health and that repeatedly existing laws and procedures already in place are not followed.
2018
26 dead First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas
‘Air Force failed to flag up Texas church gunman for his assault arrest SIX times…’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6472497/Air-Force-failed-6-times-report-Texas-church-gunman.html
2012
12 dead, Aurora, Colorado
“Holmes’ psychiatrist and head of his graduate program both told University of Colorado police officer about his homicidal thoughts”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219211/Records-universitys-response-Holmes.html
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shooter in Tuscon,
“… suspected gunman in a Tucson shooting rampage, had five run-ins with Pima Community College campus police …”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jared-loughner-had-5-run-ins-with-college-police/
“The college that had expelled Arizona shooting suspect Jared Loughner issued a security alert about him a full week before the deadly rampage, it has emerged. ”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357371/Arizona-shooting-Jared-Loughner-college-issued-security-alert-week-before.html
Worth reading.
‘ If You Think Someone Is Mentally Ill: ‘
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2041733-2,00.html
And when the nut cases can’t get a firearm,
“A man killed four people during a stabbing rampage in Southern California before officers found his car parked outside a 7-Eleven …”
https://www.kesq.com/news/national-world/stabbing-rampage-kills-4-in-california/1107031871
Criminals do not obey laws.
I’m all for common sense laws:
No machine guns
No bump stocks
Background checks
10 day waiting period
Concealed carry permits
Safety Certificate requirement
Heck, I don’t even see any need for more than a 10 round magazine for any civilian owned firearm, but the fact of the matter is the gun grabbers will never stop whittling away at the 2nd Amendment and criminals will not obey laws… only people affected will be the law abiding citizens who don’t pose a threat. Friggin waste of time.
The framers of The Constitution made it clear that the purpose of an armed population was to protect itself from the government and that”s the thinking today. America will always be armed and nothing will ever change that.
The contributing factors are pretty well documented here, all have some degree of validity. I think the problems in today’s society began in the 60’s and have increased and mutated continuously to today. I blame the internet, especially social media, and the competitiveness of the news media to the problem. Communication today is too good, far beyond the need to know. I have always supported gun ownership but perhaps the token banning of black gun purchases, or making the process so onerous that only the most serious would attempt it. After all, they are just toys.
This excerpt from the NY Times says it all
[summary: mental illness does not cause mass shootings]:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/opinion/mass-shootings-mental-health.html
Why Mass Murderers May Not Be Very Different From You or Me
“After a gunman massacred 22 people in an El Paso Walmart last week, President Trump declared that mass killers are “mentally ill monsters.”
It was a convenient — and misleading — explanation that diverted public attention from a darker possibility behind such unimaginable horror: The killer might have been rational, just filled with hate.
[…]
One of the largest studies of mass killers, conducted by Dr. Michael Stone and involving 350 people, found that only 20 percent had a psychotic illness; the other 80 percent had no diagnosable mental illness — just the everyday stress, anger, jealousy and unhappiness the rest of us have.
Likewise, an F.B.I. study of active shooters between 2000 and 2013 found that only 25 percent had ever received a psychiatric diagnosis and just 5 percent had a psychotic illness.”
Do have to give NY Times credit, they tagged the article listing it as an Opinion piece.
Why is it so many mass shootings take place in gun free zones ?
https://spectator.org/mass-shootings-in-gun-free-zones/
Were these zones created by politicians to produce exactly the results they have ?
“no diagnosable mental illness — just the everyday stress, anger, jealousy and unhappiness the rest of us have”
Yeah…. except the rest of us don’t go ballistic and gun down a crowd of innocent people! THAT is friggin nuts!
Just because nobody diagnosed the lunatic before does not mean he was sane!
How about some people are just bad people. Hate drives some of these people to kill. Saying they are all mentally ill and that is the cause is wrong.
I blame a society that tries its best to completely isolate young boys from any feelings of rejection or disappointment. In the “participation trophy” era of today, kids are taught that everything unpleasant that happens to them is somebody else’s fault. They’re coddled and protected from the “real world”. Problem is, eventually they can’t be protected anymore, and they have no experience dealing with the disappointment of being turned down for a job or the rejection of being dumped by a girlfriend, or whatever. That’s why they lose their minds and go on shooting rampages.
This is solely a Mental health issue. Many people have guns and handle them responsibly and with care and respect for human life and….guess what….nothing happens. Only when you place a mentally unhealthy person behind the gun, knife, car, baseball bat, etc can an instrument cause harm. And…to remind everyone…not all forms of mental illness make one prone to violence.
One .ore thing…no amount of legislation will stop these terrible things from happening.
The question is far too black and white. It is both.
Also we have a new component. Hateful rhetoric encourages the
white nationalists and racists nut jobs who have been pushed into mass shootings. So now we have a poison ☠️ mixed into the avalanche of assault weapons. We are a crazy messed up violent hateful bunch. No other country has as much murder or mass shootings as the old USA.
In Japan there is no gun violence or guns. There you go!
Those white nationalists and racists nut jobs are all left wing and the shooters are all Never-Trumpers.
@ Ilovepopcorn
Please explain the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo cult that in March 1995 released nerve agent sarin on five different trains in the Tokyo subway system, killing 12 people and sickening hundreds of others.
Aum Shinrikyo also used a variety of biological and chemical agents to conduct a number of assassination attempts and other attacks. It was responsible for 20 confirmed attacks or attempts between 1990 and 1995, 13 using chemical agents and seven using biological agents. The Japanese government further suspects that Aum Shinrikyo was behind another 13 attacks that remain unsolved.
In addition, there were six others that are believed to be the work of individual members or copycats. The group also reportedly executed 20 or so dissident members using VX nerve agent.
There you go! No gun violence but they have chemical/biological warfare…. which I fear a whole lot more than a bullet!
@ Ilovepopcorn…. Japan is the example?
Hmmm…….are you saying it is the cultural & racial diversity that is to blame for all the violence in America?
How can you blame an inanimate object for a conscious decision?
A gun is just a method.
If you seized every gun in America some asshat would find another method like IEDs or vehicle into a crowd or a stabbing or nuclear, biologic, chemical released in public or on a BART train, etc etc etc.
That is a tired argument. Such a terrible response after so many people and probably many more slaughtered innocent people dying.
I am sick of such bad judgment. The way things are now sure is not working at all.
@ Ilovepopcorn, how is pointing out that removing gun rights for responsible people is not going to stop mass killings, a tired argument? It is a factual argument…the mentally ill and/or criminals will just use knives, cars, planes, bombs, etc. in place of guns.. It is a dangerous fallacy that removing guns from responsible citizens will solve any of the mass killings. You know what country has strict gun control, Mexico…where people live in safety and freedom, right? I bet the people in Mississippi, are darn glad for the armed citizen who stopped the recent whacko at a Wal-mart there. It feels good for some, to have knee jerk reaction against guns, but won’t work.
@ Ilovepopcorn
So tell me where I’m wrong. A gun is just an instrument, nothing more. Supposedly the first killing was with the jawbone of an ass, the first instrument – rudimentary technology.
The fact of the matter you do not want to recognize that people have the capability to be violent, it’s innate in all of us coupled with the fact that we have a mental health problem in America that we are not dealing with.
You cannot tell me that a person who goes on a mass killing doesn’t have mental health issues. I would argue that a person who murders one person has mental health issues. That doesn’t absolve them of their actions by any means what so ever but there are issued there. It’s not normal.
Banning something is easy and makes you feel good that you did something but it doesn’t absolutely nothing to address the underlying issue of mental health.
Mental health is a hard question and there are no easy answers to it so we avoid it much like the national debt. Politicians like quick and easy soundbites like let’s ban it, problem solved, vote for me.
We can cure cancer, do a scan and confirm it. How do you test a person to see if they are cured of a mental health problem? You can’t be totally sure.
If you were to be intellectually honest for just one moment you would recognize that you really don’t want to ban guns, you really want to ban violence.
A noble cause but also futile.
Banning something has never changed behavioral problems. Murder is banned but yet we still have them.
England has no handguns in private hands; however, in 2018 London had a higher murder rate than New York City which is similar in size. The problem? Knifings to the point that the Mayor of London is calling for….wait for it…. banning knives.
Do you honestly think that if somehow they confiscated all knives in London the murders would suddenly stop or would murderers turn to a different technology to kill? Once again banning something makes people feel good but doesn’t nothing to address the real problem.
Stop looking at the trees and see the forest.
Another mental defective coward looking for his 5 minutes of fame his miserable life never would have given walks into a walmart and is STOPPED.
“… Springfield Police “responded to a call of an active shooter at the Walmart: Neighborhood Market at Republic Rd.” They arrived to find the suspect wearing “body armor and military fatigues” and being held at gunpoint by an off-duty firefighter.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/08/good-guy-with-gun-stops-armed-man-in-missouri-walmart/
Good thing it wasn’t a gun free zone ! ! !
I blame the broken and unhealthy brains. The state of mind necessary in carrying out a shooting of random people should be a far-greater concern, than the tools (weapons) themselves. If there is to be a continued focus on gun-control, at the same time, there needs to be 4 or 5 times the effort put fourth in addressing and understanding the psychological profile of the type of person who would commit the act of indiscriminate murder. It is not only too late to take away guns, it’s also impossible to take away guns; because, the black market is strong, and the amount of guns (in the US) out-number the 350-million plus people living in the US. I wonder, how many of these guns are decades-old, have been on the streets for decades, stolen, never registered, have been used in numerous crimes, change hands, and then the cycle repeats itself? But, that problem is much too complicated to solve in a few years time, let alone our lifetime, and tough to debate politically. Its easier for politicians and the media to pacify the public with the “illusion of safety” provided by increased legislation.
I was thinking about this last night, so while I was sitting at home I wanted to see if it was people or guns that are to blame for these mass shootings. So I took out my hunting rifle, shotgun, hand gun, and my scary looking AK-47 with the magazines and the ammunition sitting next to the waiting for the to load themselves and shoot me. I waited and after sitting there for a little while nothing happened, so after this scientific experiment i decided that it’s evil people that’s the issue not guns.
Obviously not mutually exclusive causations. The NRA answer of ‘it’s not us it’s the crazy people and the solution is more gun’s’ is a no-go. And taking my weapons away is a no-go. So I have no answer for this madness, but I can say there’s an seething anger roiling through America and you can blame whoever you want (we all to some degree participate), but until that either burns itself out or spills over into something even worse, I think we can expect more of the same. Glad my kids are grown.
Its simple really. Ask all mentally ill people who plan on a mass shooting to turn in their weapons. A good law will keep us safe enough to sleep at night right? Because if its a law, then we are guaranteed safety, thats what laws do…
How well does the law against murder keep voctims safe? Hell, how well does the speeding limit keep drivers safe? We should take all the cars away too.
Airlines have strict gun control too. No fatalities by a gun but they sure got far with box cutters.
Wake up folks. Making up new rules and stricter laws that are only followed by the law abiding and sane of mind only encourages mass shooters to have free reign on an unarmed population.
Untreated Mental Health is the cause.
London doesn’t have guns so they have a knifing problem right now. So it’s not the weapon itself since they’ll just use a different weapon.
Normally functioning people do not do violent, deadly things. Guns do not shoot at will. Our current society is damaging what would be normally happy kids who could have experienced a happy childhood. Too much electronic use, violent video games and movies/music, drugs and alcohol, confusion about sexual identity, and poor role model adults contribute to mental instability. God is swept under the rug in most families or considered a fairytale. The people who do murderous acts are filled with hate and hopelessness.
No matter how much money you throw at mental health you won’t be able to identify the next crazy person that shoots up a mall. But you can keep certain guns from being available to them.
No you can’t!
Something to think about…
The AK-47 was introduced in 1947 and the AR-15 has been around since 1956. How come this is only becoming a problem now? Out of all gun related since 1982, 4% have been carried out with a rifle, yet 63% via handgun.
Blaming guns would be like blaming keyboards for all of the poorly-written comments on this site.
Neither.
Breakdown of the family structure, due to many reasons that would be too much to get into here. This produces these types of humans. It’s not the guns; gun control only controls the legal guns of the people that want to protect themselves. The criminals on the streets with illegal guns don’t care about laws or gun control.
Definitely guns as born out by facts, statistics, and even common sense.
… and good God, there is absolutely no excuse for legal assault guns for civilians!
… and for those who blame mental health… then where the hexx is the MONEY to help? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Not to fear though… you are still paying… the system has to sustain it one way or the other, currently mostly in the back end (the most inefficient way)… the stupid and immoral way.
Also, all of our personal safety suffers because of this insane gun culture.