The Water Cooler The Water Cooler – Do You Think Convicted Criminals Should Get Free College While In Prison? by CLAYCORD.com November 15, 2023 - 12:57 PM November 15, 2023 - 12:57 PM 67 comments The “Water Cooler” is a feature on Claycord.com where we ask you a question or provide a topic, and you talk about it. The “Water Cooler” will be up Monday-Friday at noon. QUESTION: Do you think convicted criminals should get free college while in prison? Advertisement Talk about it…. Share 0 FacebookTwitterPinterestEmail previous post San Quentin College In-Prison Program To Get Guaranteed Cal State Transfer Admission Once Convicts Are Released next post Escaped Alleged Kidnapper Back In Jail In Contra Costa County After Arrest In Oakland 67 comments Paul November 15, 2023 - 1:21 PM - 1:21 PM Yes. 11 40 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:18 PM - 2:18 PM It has been stated and proven time and time, again, that four years of additional education after high school (four years of college) does nothing more than keep the available workforce out of the market. It is an economic variable which would overwhelm the market, otherwise, and have negative consequences on the economy overall. 9 23 Danged Ineffectual November 15, 2023 - 5:44 PM - 5:44 PM Really? Please provide some evidence. 9 2 RunDog November 16, 2023 - 10:10 AM - 10:10 AM A study of the Experimental Projects In Schools (DEEPS) in the Berkeley Unified School District (financed by the United States Office of Education, USOE) advanced the theory in 1968-69. It’s not a new concept. My guess is it is still being studied. But, obviously the release of a large number of high school graduates into the labour market clearly effects the economy and the collage graduates would do likewise. It is what is considered an “economic variable.” 3 1 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:52 PM - 2:52 PM “I Shall e Released” Bob Dylan and The Band From “The Last Walrz” https://youtu.be/MjtPBjEz-BA?feature=shared 5 3 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 3:33 PM - 3:33 PM Love just about anything from The Band. Just watched The Last Waltz again yesterday. As for the song “I shall be realeased listen to the Rick Danko (I have a thing for Rick) singing it at Richard Manuels funeral. 1 5 Atticus Thraxx November 15, 2023 - 7:29 PM - 7:29 PM Dang RUNDOG, got some soul in ya. 👊 2 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 8:41 PM - 8:41 PM Atticus I feel left out, don’t I have soul. I love The Band as well! No one sings with more soul than Rick Danko. 2 2 Atticus Thraxx November 16, 2023 - 5:34 PM - 5:34 PM My apologies. Please forgive my momentary lapse of good manners Hanne. 😀 RunDog November 16, 2023 - 10:30 AM - 10:30 AM Thraxx: I’m in that age group! 🤫 1 Schmee November 18, 2023 - 3:42 PM - 3:42 PM Yes! Trust me we all want lower class people to go to college and make a career as opposed to violence. I think Cole H should be free for everyone making less than $100,000 a year maybe 75. Captain Bebops November 15, 2023 - 1:25 PM - 1:25 PM So why college courses? Wouldn’t trades be better and be less cost and quicker rewards. Is it that there is an oversupply of college professors or something? I have no problem with helping some of these people back on their feet but that doesn’t require college courses. Sure they could be offered college courses if inclined but they may need to foot the bill for at least for some of it. 40 1 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 2:06 PM - 2:06 PM Perhaps there should be a choice. Some might be better suited to a trade others to college. Taking college course does not make you a professor. I would however draw the line at courses that are not practical in the real world, especially for prisoners that will be out in public looking for a job someday. No courses in basket weaving or german polka history. (Last one borrowed from Dave Ramsey). 17 7 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 1:38 PM - 1:38 PM Yes, if someone is interested and have the ability it seems a better alternative to doing nothing, or getting into trouble even though in prison. The human mind needs to be occupied by something, and if there are no alternatives for prisoners they might just stir up trouble. This is not cuddling prisoners it just seems to make sense, even for those in for life. 16 19 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:44 PM - 2:44 PM “I Shot The Sheriff” Eric Clapton https://youtu.be/APWhx97QvxE?feature=shared 3 7 RunDog November 16, 2023 - 10:37 AM - 10:37 AM Of course, I don’t approve of the sentiment expressed in this song. But, everyone who thinks this is a good idea will love having a “better educated” criminal element who will be singing it night and day. 3 Dr. Jellyfinger November 16, 2023 - 6:53 PM - 6:53 PM “Let It Rain” Beanzy November 15, 2023 - 1:42 PM - 1:42 PM Everyone with any intellect ought to take college courses online. Even Coursera online classes are worth it. Education is the true psychedelic habit worth taking. 12 6 Anon November 15, 2023 - 1:58 PM - 1:58 PM No. 22 10 Abe November 15, 2023 - 2:00 PM - 2:00 PM They should have access to courses but they need to pay the tuition back once released. 19 14 jeff November 15, 2023 - 2:02 PM - 2:02 PM Outside of prison, non criminals, everyone should get free education, including those in prison. 13 21 Tim November 15, 2023 - 2:25 PM - 2:25 PM WHAT??? See what happens when you’re California educated! 23 3 Barstoolateds November 15, 2023 - 2:02 PM - 2:02 PM Shouldn’t they receive an elementary school education first? 29 5 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 3:22 PM - 3:22 PM You have to have some schooling before college. 7 2 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:03 PM - 2:03 PM My college education cost me a home, hours of commuting, student loans paid back with interest, and hours of part-time work to afford the cost— and it really didn’t increase my eventual income any significant amount. I would have been better off going to trade school. So, “No.” I don’t think convicted criminals should get a free college education while in prison. Rehabilitation seemed to be working just fine — at least a lot better than “woke vision.” “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” No wonder old people are all so bitter — having to pay for all this “rewarding the deviant.” It only encourages more deviance. 31 13 Jessica November 15, 2023 - 2:25 PM - 2:25 PM I guarantee you, know one is “doing crime” thinking of all the cool, free stuff that you apparently thing that they will get that are funded by “old people”. The only people doing that are addicts and mentally ill people trying to get a warm place to sleep for the night. (And while we’re on the subject of the elderly thinking they are handing money out to people, can my paycheck not fund “bitter old people” who want to stop working early and pay their bills with social security? I’d like to do that for myself since that will be gone by the time I’m of age). 2 24 RunDog November 16, 2023 - 11:20 AM - 11:20 AM Jessica:: The reports that Social Security will be defunded as of a certain date are simply not true. People were saying that in the 1970s when my parents retired. There is more than enough to continue Social Security ad infinitum. You will find, however, as I did, that the Cost of Living and the condition of the economy fluctuate making it frequently necessary to augment your Social Security income to make ends meet and cover expenses that were unanticipated. Social Security also doesn’t cover everything. You will, also, have the usual living expenses that require additional funds you had not planned for unless you are fabulously wealthy.. Taxes,, which will fund thiese criminals, also continue to eat away at your retirement savings. We aren’t living the “high life” like you think! 7 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:55 PM - 2:55 PM “You get what you stroke,” 2 4 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 8:48 PM - 8:48 PM College is not for everyone, nor is trade, we all have certain talents and abilities, follow ones talent and abilities will probably give a more positive result. After listening to Dave Ramsey, it is obvious that too many people take out loans, and often don’t finish the schooling or don’t get the job and don’t make the money they thought they would when the took out the loan. I realize it is not always possible to go to school without a loan, but seems to me many take out to large a loan, and some don’t try hard enough to try to get an education without taking out a loan. 3 Ricardoh November 15, 2023 - 2:07 PM - 2:07 PM If it keeps them out of trouble, why not. Hillsdale college has free online courses. No CRT or White devil talk at Hillsdale. 14 5 Chris November 15, 2023 - 2:11 PM - 2:11 PM Ridiculous question, I wouldn’t give an inmate anything but the most basic needs, food , water , tolitries and books. No more weights, basketballs, tv etc. Have them all pick up trash, break rocks, paint over graffiti , whatever. Maybe then they’ll think twice before taking the easy way 29 10 RunDog November 15, 2023 - 2:34 PM - 2:34 PM “I Fought The Law” The Clash https://youtu.be/AL8chWFuM-s?si=6llUSYX2pI2a9lYB 3 3 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 3:36 PM - 3:36 PM Except if a prisoner is to be released someday it is a benefit to society if he has some way of getting back on his feet, being it a trade or college. 3 6 Parent November 15, 2023 - 3:41 PM - 3:41 PM Chris I can only give you one thumbs up, but I completely agree. Bring back chain gangs. Go dig a hole and when you are done, fill it up. Make small rocks out of big rocks. Bring back trade schools to make furniture for the state, … Why do we treat criminals with more respect and care than we treat law abiding (or at least not caught) individuals? Criminals get free law, room, board, education, new books, new weights and much much more! What do children get in school, only what we can afford after we raise the money for them. Our priorities are screwed up in this state … but then again look who is and has been running it. Let’s go Newscum! I would never vote for a prisoner to get more than food and shelter but in this state, Newscum will just declare another state of emergency and dictator the decision 21 5 Captain Bebops November 15, 2023 - 2:34 PM - 2:34 PM These years a college degree does not mean one will get a job in that field right away. I can even take years. Obviously one would need to pick a field where the is a demand but should also pick a field that they have interest. Trades the same thing. Don’t pick carpentry if you can drive a nail right. I was terrible at carpentry but good at plumbing and electrical, but I’ve never needed to earn a living from those. . We really need to do a better job at finding what people have a knack for. 4 2 Exit 12A November 15, 2023 - 3:31 PM - 3:31 PM No. Not college. . Offer training in a trade to those with qualifying criteria like being a citizen or legal resident of the US, aptitude & attitude, non-violence crime conviction, etc. . America has a shortage of auto mechanics, machinists, welders, plumbers, roofers, HVAC & sheetmetal workers, and electricians. 14 1 Captain Bebops November 15, 2023 - 4:40 PM - 4:40 PM Watch the latest South Park Movie for a comment on that. It is hilarious (billionaire handymen). 2 Exit 12A November 15, 2023 - 9:10 PM - 9:10 PM . I can’t stand South Park. It insults my intelligence. . 1 4 Chuq November 15, 2023 - 3:38 PM - 3:38 PM What is your plan to help them not commit more crimes and go back to jail? 11 2 parent November 15, 2023 - 4:53 PM - 4:53 PM You are assuming that if they do the crime, they will go to jail. Today, saw three cars run the red metering lights .. did not even slow down and one had to drive on the shoulder to do it. Saw a vehicle on viking blow the stop sign heading to contra costa blve. It had a student driver sticker on the rear of the car, only a young (teenager?) driver. Then the old battered lexus at babies r us with tags that expired in Mar 2022, the front right corner bashed in, no handicap placard parked in the handicap stop and partly in the bushes in front it. Think of recent news, they have video and names of people who have robbed stores – no jail. Now if we could actually put people in jail, not a resort, maybe we would see some changes. 5 2 Exit 12A November 15, 2023 - 5:19 PM - 5:19 PM . They’re called viable employment opportunities and steady income upon their release/parole. Hopefully that beats thieving, robbing, and burglarizing, right? . A well-paying job cures many social ills. . 2 1 domo November 15, 2023 - 3:55 PM - 3:55 PM No, not on our dime…. Does that mean the state will reimburse me for my college tuition that I scraped by to pay through 2 full time and one part time job? …no way 7 2 Exit 12A November 15, 2023 - 9:10 PM - 9:10 PM . I can’t stand South Park. It insults my intelligence. . 3 AJR November 15, 2023 - 3:57 PM - 3:57 PM Yes I do 3 3 El D November 15, 2023 - 3:59 PM - 3:59 PM Yes. Education is good for everyone. Let them study history, math, science, sociology, and psychology. Let them take an English class where they will read some good books and learn to write. Let them take some business class. Prison should be about rehabilitation, not just punishment. Most of the prisoners will eventually be back in society. Let them improve themselves while incarcerated. It will benefit all of us. 7 9 Original G November 15, 2023 - 4:02 PM - 4:02 PM Many need to get a GED first. . Historically prison system is where failures of CA’s educational system ended up. If they don’t learn a skills set in schools then they’ll learn skill set of the streets. 7 1 Bad Karma November 21, 2023 - 1:09 AM - 1:09 AM They should all follow the example set by Black Dolphin Prison. Justice? Served! Cautiously Informed November 15, 2023 - 4:36 PM - 4:36 PM Reward them for committing crimes, in other words. That’s Democrat politician thinking all the way. What should happen is they should be put to work. Make them really pay for their crimes(and their prison room and board). Honest law abiding taxpayers shouldn’t have to bear the financial burden of supporting criminals. 15 3 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 8:58 PM - 8:58 PM Giving someone to a way to make a living when they get out of prison is not rewarding them, it is being practical. It cost society more to continue to support repeat offenders in jail. We are supporting them in jail, why not try to make them constructive members of society. It won’t work for everyone, but I have to believe that it will have some success. 4 6 parent November 16, 2023 - 6:36 AM - 6:36 AM So just some quick historical data points. After the Korean war, we saw about 120 people per 100,000 get reincarcerated in prison. In California today, we are looking at 259. What has changed between now and then? In 1960, they had a blanket and thin mattress, today … is it a Sealy or a Tempurpedic? In 1960, they had to do carpentry, labor, today … they are given a sex change operation and the tax payer pays for it. In 1960, corruption was rampant in the prison, today … probably not that much different based on recent news. During the 1960’s we started changing prison life, civil rights and all. Then the 1980’s came when they started getting the fluff stuff. In 1972, the Supreme Court in Furman v Georgia said no more executions, just life imprisonment. There were also no executions from 1967 – 1977. Hmm .. so; when we made the criminal work in the prison, when we did not reward the criminals with free stuff, when the criminal had to suffer for their crimes, when the criminals were held accountble … our crime rates were down and our recidivism rates were lower. Maybe we should go back to some of those things to improve society. And yeah, I expect down votes for this unpopular opinion, but sometimes we need to speak up to make a change. 12 1 RunDog November 16, 2023 - 11:35 AM - 11:35 AM Prisoners also made License Plates in the 1960s, Maybe they just need “educating” on “work” actually is! 4 Cautiously Informed November 16, 2023 - 2:10 PM - 2:10 PM Hanne, That’s a nice sentimental thought. However, criminals should be treated as criminals, especially career criminals. 1 Max November 15, 2023 - 5:26 PM - 5:26 PM NO! There is no “free lunch”! Someone pays for it, and we do!! They could learn to be rehabilitated by fixing things, building things, making things. They don’t need weights and gyms, they can work. Prison should be a penalty, not a country club. 18 2 Atticus Thraxx November 15, 2023 - 5:34 PM - 5:34 PM We need welders, plumbers, millwrights, and electricians. Probably a better investment. 10 Hanne Jeppesen November 15, 2023 - 9:00 PM - 9:00 PM Yes, but not everyone is cut out for that, some people can work with their hands other cannot. My ex was one of those, fortunately he had a good education and was ambitious so he made a good living, and could afford to pay someone to fix things in the house. 1 4 Exit 12A November 15, 2023 - 5:40 PM - 5:40 PM . They’re called viable employment opportunities and steady income upon their release/parole. Hopefully that beats thieving, robbing, and burglarizing, right? . A well-paying job cures many social ills. . 5 2 Aunt Barbara November 15, 2023 - 5:52 PM - 5:52 PM mental help first and hard work to pay back society, then learn a trade. and work off the tuition.. 6 KPP November 15, 2023 - 6:08 PM - 6:08 PM Bread and water. That’s all. 8 2 KBB November 15, 2023 - 7:02 PM - 7:02 PM Bread and water. That’s all. 6 1 Hope Johnson November 15, 2023 - 8:12 PM - 8:12 PM Probably better to require some type of work or maybe good behavior periods in exchange for the opportunity to take the classes. Why not prepare inmates for the a realistic experience in the mainstream world? They can get an education and develop a routine that prepares them to have a paying job. 4 Big Berna November 15, 2023 - 9:07 PM - 9:07 PM Education can help build critical thinking. People commit crimes because they have no other choice or do not find themselves worthy enough for an honest living. This is one handout I agree with. 1 7 Hanne Jeppesen November 16, 2023 - 10:26 AM - 10:26 AM I believe you are partly right. While some commit crimes due to desperation, I also believe some commit crimes just because they want to. They are anti social and have a warped view of society. those are hard to rehabilitate, but I do believe that rehabilitation is possible for many. Especially those that commit crimes very young, if given a chance they can become productive members of society. 2 1 theunforgiven November 15, 2023 - 10:54 PM - 10:54 PM no they should do forced labor so we can have cheaper products. put them to work! dont want to be forced to work free then dont do the crime!!!! 9 1 Max November 16, 2023 - 3:29 PM - 3:29 PM Some commit crimes because it is easy. Years ago, a young boy stole something from my store, a 12 yrs old boy. My son asked him why he did it. “Because it was easy.” 25 yrs ago. Now it is even easier, no one stops anyone from stealing. No penalties. Get caught? So what, and free room and board in prison would beat being homeless. No responsibilities. 2 THE BLACK KNIGHT November 17, 2023 - 10:08 AM - 10:08 AM The majority of non-life and non-death sentences should require the completion of a high school diploma/GED, trade certificate, and/or college degree. . I remember reading a study some years ago which found attractive people committed fewer crimes than average looking people and average looking people committed fewer crimes than unattractive people. The study indicated self-esteem seems to be a factor in some crime. 4 Mika November 20, 2023 - 3:23 PM - 3:23 PM Only When the good kids can get it for free first. Don’t reward bad behavior. Yup November 20, 2023 - 3:38 PM - 3:38 PM Not on my tax dollar. Comments are closed.